Ep 18: The Traumatic Impact of Medical Abuse and Neglect: A Conversation with Christie Reicher
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This is a rough transcript created with Artificial Intelligence technology. Any misspellings and sentence errors are a result of imperfect Al.
In this episode, we'll be discussing the traumatic impact of medical abuse and neglect. Christie Reicher is opening up with her very real and personal experiences in order to shed light on the maltreatment that can and does occur within the medical system. Christie is a therapist in private practice, specializing in working with the chronic illness population.
She also has a passion for consulting other therapists on how to work with chronically ill clients. Chrissy Riker is a licensed clinical social worker. Feminist disability, justice oriented therapists, specializing in helping professional women who live with chronic illnesses or chronic pain in Washington and Oregon.
Hi, Christy, thank you so much for coming on.
Hi, destiny. Thanks so much for having
me. Yeah, Christy and I met virtually, uh, close to probably two years ago at this
point. Um, what is time ? Yeah, exactly
online. And we've just never been able to connect until now. So I'm really excited to get into our conversation.
Um, so Christy, why don't, you know, I just read your bio, but why don't you tell people a little bit more about who you are and, and why. You're passionate about working with this population.
Yeah. Um, that could take 30 seconds or all day give me what you got . Yeah. Um, so to try to sum it up, I I've been a therapist since 2016 and I, this was a career change for me.
Went to grad school, got into this, uh, because of a passion for working with women, who'd been through domestic violence and sexual assault. and, um, because of that, and I have a background in, in women's studies and feminism was, was very drawn to that and was, I'm trying to condense this cuz there's just so much to say there.
But, but I always came to this field, uh, with a feminist lens and then I had my own separate from that, uh, lifelong story that we'll get into of chronic illness and knew that I had been treated very badly in the medical system. And a lot of my women, friends with chronic illness had as well, but I never really made the connection.
I was seeing like all the systemic stuff with the feminism and domestic violence and all of that. The chronic illness stuff seems separate. And then I graduated and in 2016, I started working in community mental health and was specializing still in those areas. I was interested in and getting a lot of clients in that area.
And, and that was great. But you know, in community mental health, you also are given. Whoever they give you . So I, I got, uh, I got so many clients and I was realizing the ones I tend to really enjoy, like even more than I ever expected to. And the ones that tended to be the most, uh, consistent and show up.
And all of that for me were people in general, but primarily women with chronic illnesses and.
Just kind of has been a journey since there. I, I, I don't wanna say too much now, cuz there'll be more to say later. And also we, we could just talk about this all day, but that's, that's kind of how it started. I don't work in community mental health anymore. I, uh, like you said, we met around, uh, early 2020 when we both were starting our private practices and at the end of 2020, I went full-time into private practice.
Great. Yeah. Can you tell me about the connection that you started to find between, um, looking at things through a feminist social justice lens and the chronic illness piece?
Yes. Um, of course, people of all genders can and do get chronic illnesses and people of all genders can be subject to medical, neglect, and abuse and mistreatment and all kinds of not good things.
But overwhelmingly, it happens to women. I was starting to see this and suspect this more and more just from, through my work. And then in, I believe it was 2019. I'm gonna look real quickly and see when the book came out. Okay. The, the book was published in 2018 and I read it in 2019, it's called doing harm the truth about how bad medicine and lazy science lead woman dismissed, misdiagnosed and sick by my dosome Barry.
I read that and I was like, oh my God. Yes, this is what I've been seeing. This is, this is the evidence and the research to, to validate what I'm seeing here. The little blurb on the back, says it, uh, weaves together studies and statistics, interviews with doctors and researchers and moving personal stories to provide the first comprehensive accessible look at how sexism and medicine harms American women today.
And I'm not connected to this book at all. I, I get nothing and whether people buy it or read it or not, but. The, the author used to be, I believe it was Feministing. It was a, um, feminist online magazine and she used to be the, the editor or the founder or something of that. I remember reading it before they closed down and that sort of brought everything together for me.
It was like, okay, this is, this is the gender studies feminism stuff that. Have seen overall in life. And now this is proving the connection there with chronic illness that I was really starting to suspect. So it sounds
like the book kind of took your experience, your lived experience, but also the experience you had as a therapist, working with this population and just validated everything that you were seeing and, and experiencing
so much.
she actually, I believe in 2019 came to, uh, To Portland, uh, which is very close to where I live, uh, on a book tour and I was already to go see her and get my book signed. And then I ended up not going because I had the flu and a fever. This was before COVID back when , you know, we had normal illnesses, um, And I just thought, oh, the irony that I can't go to this event about women with illness, because here I am stuck at home, a woman with an illness.
funny how things play out that way.
Well, yeah. Um, well, yeah, you know, that book has actually been on my Kindle for a long time. And admittedly, I have not read that one yet. It does seem, um, like the, the information that I, I think is becoming more commonplace now, which is like women have largely been left out.
Medical studies and, uh, clearly, I mean, there's a history here, right? Where women weren't allowed, we didn't have voices. We weren't allowed to have bank accounts. We couldn't go to the doctors without our husbands signing off on something actually being wrong. Um, so yeah, there's an entire, there's all this generational history of why women might be and are, um, very much not looked.
Yeah, all medical studies, definitely. But there's another book I've got so many next to me right now. I, I think it's invisible women is the one I'm thinking of, uh, to like look at any industry, any area, everything is designed around men. Uh, women are still, uh, much more injured in car accidents because the crash chest dumies are the wrong size and shape.
And. Yeah, like you name it, we can find something. And, and so that, that really informs my work, but it's, it's much beyond, um, women are different from men or women versus men, but.
More of a cause, cuz I'm a clinical social worker as well. So this all comes together of looking at systems and who has power and who doesn't, how is that power being misused? You see that so much in the medical system, in the. It's part of it, but the pharmaceutical system, you see that in our government systems are all working together to, to disempower the women that I work with.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's, it's hard to talk about these things without having an answer. Like, okay, well, what do we do about it now? Um, yeah,
you
know, because I think we can talk about all day the history and how it impacts us. And, um, but I always find myself in these conversations, just struggling so hard at, at the end of like, what do we do about this?
You know, I
know. And, um, there's, there's not a great answer right now, but that, that is the struggle. And I, I, I think you are onto something really important. There is so many. Doctors and therapists and many other professions too, but I'm gonna stick with doctors and therapists, I think have really good intentions and they really, really want to help.
And when they look at what's actually going on systemically, they do feel, feel powerless to help and is much, much easier to. Oh, okay. Well, you can do these things to change. You are the problem you being the client or patient. Uh, so, so you are going to be on this exercise routine or this, uh, homework regimen.
I have the therapist I'm giving you and, and that's gonna make everything better because it's, it's too hard and scary to admit that a lot of these things are out of our control.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That especially. Obviously, I'm a therapist as well. And I see it all the time, you know, the narrative of you control and, and I've used this as well in certain circumstances, although I'll say I'm very careful with it, um, you know, control what you can and, and accept what you can't.
And that is great. You know, if you're also working towards changing things that are maybe difficult to change, mm-hmm , it's not like just, uh, Oh, well, like that's a system, so there's nothing I can do. It's like, well, we can still, we can still try to figure out how I can be one piece to the puzzle. Um, but even just in relationships, you know, that narrative is the same.
It's like, you know, you're in my therapy office and we're talking about, um, your relationship, but we really can only talk about who's in the room. And so we tend to only talk about the things that the client has control over and that it's really hit or miss. That can be really helpful if we come up with something that truly was like in their control and truly, um, feels good to them for them to change.
But if you're constantly trying to change yourself or others or the world, you know, the systems that we're in, then that can be pretty draining.
Absolutely. And when it comes to the medical trauma and abuse and the gas lighting and all of that. Uh, just, just the way our systems are built.
I'm not sure it should be on. The shoulders of the chronically ill people, the disabled people, uh, I'm gonna bring up a, a maybe dicier topic, but similar to, to racism. That's that seems like a problem that white people created and therefore, a problem for white people to solve. Similarly, maybe the people who are sick, get a pass on this one and able bodied people work together to change the systems.
Yeah.
I mean, it takes an effort from all parties, for sure. And that's the hardest part, right? Because if it doesn't affect you, people tend to not care. Yeah. So that's, that's a battle. Do you find yourself well, do you, are all of your clients in private practice within the chronic illness population or. Do you have just other
90%, at least at any given time?
Yeah, I'd be okay if it was 80%, but it, it tends to be, you know, almost all of them.
Yeah.
I get that. Um, yeah, it's hard to find therapists who get it, um, from lived experience. And so even though I do think it's more so. A lot of therapists don't even know just like the average person might even know that they have chronic illnesses.
They're just back to the gas lighting. Um, you know, their labs are normal, everything looks great, but they're in constant pain or constantly getting stomach aches or migraines. And it's like, they don't even resonate with like, I have a chronic illness because their doctors said you
don't. Yeah. And, and beyond that, people who know they have a diagnosis of something.
Really hesitate to say that they're disabled and that's a whole other conversation that we can come to later if we have time. But I, that really resonated with me. What you said of labs are normal. Uh, is it okay if we go a little bit down the lived experience route right now? Sure. Yeah, please do. Yeah. So I guess I'll, I'll.
I'll start with the end and then go back. Um, so I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, EDS, and many other diagnoses that come with it. Too many to name right now, but we'll focus on the EDS. It is a heritable connective tissue disorder, genetic meaning I was born with it. There was never a moment of my existence when I didn't have it.
I am about to turn 41. And I first heard of EDS when I was 37 or 38, and I didn't get any kind of medical confirmation for myself until I was, I don't know, 38 or 39. So it's, it's still fairly new to me, certainly not new to the world. And for. My childhood in teens, I, I had symptoms. Let me back up. Uh, so part of the symptoms of this condition is hypermobility.
Your, uh, your joints are very loose and they don't stay in place. So if like a person without hypermobility can bend their elbow to a certain point, and then their arm just stops a person with hyper mobile joints, their arm just keeps going and, and bending the opposite direction, which is not a good thing.
And you can. You can have that in every joint. And there are hundreds of joints in the body and it, it affects lots of other things too. Like you're talking about, uh, stomach aches, headaches. It can affect literally any part of the body. So I had problems from pretty early on, but they were like, oh, you're having growing pains or, oh, you know, it was really hot today.
It's normal to have a headache, stuff like that, and just kind of brushed off. and by the time I was 19 or 20, it was hitting me a lot harder. I moved out on my own. I was living in a, I wanna say a third floor, walk up some like not terrible, but lots more stairs than I was used to and carrying laundry to.
And from the laundry room in the basement stuff that had not been part of my life before then. And I was in a lot more pain and this was in the early two thousands. So there was no affordable care act. There was no health insurance, if you weren't very lucky. So I didn't have health insurance and just got to the point where I, I couldn't take it anymore.
I could barely move from the pain and finally went to a doctor thinking we'll figure out how to pay for it later. I said, we have fibromyalgia. Oh, okay. What's that?
Newest catchall disease at the time.
yeah, so they said you have fibromyalgia.
I said what's that? And they didn't really have a good explanation for me other than it means you're in pain. And I'm like, oh, so I owe you like $300 now for telling me what I already knew. Thanks. and they said, Did you have any abuse in your childhood? And I said, yes. And that was literally as, as detailed as they got, they said, uh, to the doctor's credit.
He said, I'm sorry, that's why you have this disease. End of discussion. Wow. And then I said, okay, well, you know, I'm, I'm working right now. I'm a cashier. I'm on my feet all day. And I'm up and down these stairs all day. And I just, I can't do it. And I didn't know anything about disability or like what resources were available.
I just said, can you help me? I can't do this. And he said, I'm not going to do anything to help you get out of work.
And I, like I said, didn't know what resources were available. Didn't know anything about my rights as a patient. All I knew was I didn't have insurance. And now the, the health system was out with saying, oh, well, you fill out this form. And then, uh, we, our charity foundation or whatever pays for it. So you don't know us anything.
And no one explained anything different to me. So I thought this is my only option. And I also lived in a small town. Or there weren't a lot of options. Yeah. And I continued to go to this man. I wanna say that was 2001 or 2002. I went to him through 2007. When I finally graduated from college, took me a long time with all that going on, but I did it and, uh, At that point, got a job with insurance and suddenly was realizing, oh, I, it didn't have to be stuck with this all this time.
Still thought I had fibromyalgia. This went on for years, so much stuff we could talk about that I'm gonna just try to edit down. But then when I, I learned what EDS was, everything made sense. So if. Anybody was informed about this, they should have seen it. It's it's important from a, just knowing the truth about yourself standpoint, obviously, but also the, the recommendations they're giving for fibromyalgia or things that make EDS worse.
Like they want everybody to do yoga, but if you're way too floppy and bendy already, you not saying no one can do yoga. Like. Right. There are situations where it's okay, but you shouldn't just be sent out on your own to YouTube when you're like that. yeah. And, uh, saying, you know, you, you just really need to, to exercise hard every day.
They were wanting me to run and I, I did run and now I've got permanent damage in my back. That's yeah, I, I am and will be okay. But I see this. Every day. I've seen this in hundreds of people, personally, who, who I've met either in support groups or as clients, or as friends and hundreds to thousands. When you just read about people online or in books where it's not that they are, how do I say this?
They didn't start out sick and they maybe never would've gotten this sick or this injured, if they had been told the truth to begin with. I'm I'm sure I could have done certain exercises that would not have harmed me, but I am in a much worse place now because of the misinformation. Yeah. Information.
Yeah. And I think
it's, it's really hard, especially when, you know, um, doctors and people in the healthcare profession, you know, if they're in your family or your friends, like we know that it, the individual is to most often a good person and have no desire to hurt people. But I think there is this problem within the medical community where we are so scared to ask questions.
As therapists, obviously we train to ask questions. That's that's our job. Um, but even still, even as a therapist trained to ask questions, I, I find within consultation groups and different, um, Facebook groups that I'm in with therapists, that the asking of questions is actually really hard. We're so scared to be wrong.
And then insurance of course is a whole other beast. Um, we definitely don't wanna be too wrong, like trying to submit claims and you know, there's all this other stuff too, that you have to understand and know as a doctor, um, about the insurance piece of everything. And it's like, Just let them do their jobs.
yeah. Let them spend their time and energy learning more, continuing their education, um, specializing and, and things of that nature. But instead I feel like they're so bogged down by an overworked, caseload and insurance. Uh, um, what is the word I'm looking for? Insurance? Um, demands, if you will. Yeah. Um, No
insurance is so demanding.
Yeah. You know, they're telling, telling us, telling doctors how many sessions or how much treatment or what kind of treatment? Um, yeah, it's crazy. I, I recently saw an allergist who was like, oh, well, you know, um, you have to take Allegra for like, before we're allowed to try to do this other medication. I'm like, yeah, but I'm breastfeeding.
So. Can reduce my supply and it's like, so I choose, do I wanna reduce my supply, potentially take that risk? Or, or do I just, um, not take the Allegra, which was what I decided to do, but, um, yeah. It's like, you should have better
options than that. But like we were saying earlier, it's probably not really been studied, whatever you're looking at.
Uh, and breastfeeding it's probably never been looked at. Yeah.
So tell me what else comes to mind or, or what else, um, do you see with that, that you wanna speak to around kind of medical gas, lighting, how it happens, why it happens or what, how you even help clients, you know, when they're coming to you, struggling with that.
Yeah. Uh, pretty much everyone. I see. I, I do have a, a significant number of people with EDS connective tissue disorders, uh, in my caseload. And that's, that's been really nice. Just. for both of us to, to not have to like, explain so much. Of course, every, you know, no two people are the same with whatever diagnosis it is, but they don't have to spend their whole session explaining what's happening to them.
They can actually just talk to me about their life, but, um, yeah, I, I would say. Pretty much all of my clients have medical trauma, um, just going into the hospital for an appointment. Uh, seeing, you know, the scale is over here and, uh, you know, the blood pressure cut and like the whole atmosphere will just put them already into hypervigilance fight or flight, uh, with, with a very good reason.
Uh, Not just about medical stuff, but like overall, I think that what we call symptoms of mental illness and things that we need to treat are actually, um, really creative, resilient, resourceful, um, responses to trauma. Like it. When you have been harmed and treated badly in so many similar situations, it's appropriate to be on the alert like that, but that they all, uh, have experiences like that they have experiences.
Like you said, their doctor knows they need something. They know they need something. The insurance says, do you really need that? Maybe we should ask your doctor. . Um, but, but a lot of times it's the doctor refusing to even think outside the box. And I, I do get it. Like you said, there, every system we can think about is problematic and abusive when we're living in the us under capitalism, everybody's overworked and it leads to terrible things, but a lot, a lot of it, um, Doctors are trained.
I think therapists are too, but definitely doctors they're trained, uh, with the motto. When you hear hoof beats, think horses, not zebras. In other words, like it's probably something more common zebras are less common than horses and okay, fine. Like that's, that's a great place to start, but a lot of doctors stay there forever and in fact, zebras exists and they're, they are the.
The symbol for rare diseases. They're also the symbol of, for, for Eller Sandlos, which is considered a rare disease. But I would say it's actually not so many things are considered rare, but just rarely diagnosed, rarely, properly identified, rarely properly treated. And that's what I see a lot in my clients.
Being told, oh, you're, you're too young to have that, or it couldn't possibly be that bad or especially if they've done. And this has happened to me too, if they've done any kind of research on their own. Oh. You know, sometimes literally with a pat on the head, but otherwise figuratively just stay off Dr.
Google. And if not for Google, I don't know if I would have a diagnosis right now. If, if not for Facebook support groups, um, this stuff is saving people's lives.
Yeah. I, and I get that. Um, actually I've heard way too many therapists, uh, be anti self diagnosis. And I think it's incredibly sad because if somebody comes to me with a diagnosis saying, I think that this is something I'm experiencing, or even let's say, they're they say, oh no, this is definitely me.
Okay. I, now I have ADHD or I have this because of this. I'm like, okay, let's explore that. Yeah. What resonates with you about that? And we just, we get into it. Um, I really like what you said about. It's okay to start with like let's, you know, whatever the most common thing is, it's probably what it is. Yeah.
We don't wanna do anything too invasive or, um, make people like go through medical trauma, just trying to, you know, experiment on them to see if it's some rare disease. But yeah, the piece that's important, like you said, is that they stay there and that's probably the piece where it's like, they're overworked.
They don't have time to go home and think about that one case that, you know, They they're just they're swamped and yeah, we are the ones that suffer for
it. Yeah. Our society in general. Some, some people do this even more than others, but our society kind of sets doctors up as gods. So I think you've seen this in the Facebook groups. I have too definitely in individual people I've talked to, they'll say, well, the doctor ruled out all medical conditions. So now we know that this is conversion disorder.
Fill in the blank. So, um, now I, I need a consultation for working with this client. , I'm really annoying in those groups and come in and say, Saying there aren't any medical conditions. It's not the same thing as there aren't being any medical conditions, what has actually happened here. Um, but yeah, we, I think we do a real disservice to our clients.
When we just accept whatever some random doctor said, I'm, I'm very into investigating it. Not, not that I am a doctor. Not that I can give any medical advice, but you know, I, I can read a medical report and tell people what hasn't hasn't happened here.
Like what's been, uh, if this lab was done or not done, you know?
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Again, I feel exactly the same way. I'm not a doctor either. Um, and so I try to be really careful and I, I can remember when I first started referring clients to, um, a functional medicine doctor who is here in Atlanta, that I, I work with almost exclusively. Um, and. I remember feeling like I was like overstepping some kind of like boundary that as a therapist I'm not allowed to do because that's out of my scope of practice.
We, as therapists are so, so scared and, and rightfully so. Like we don't, we should never jump into something. That's not our scope of practice, but saying like, my intuition tells me this. So here are some resources for you to check that out, go to the, this doctor or. Ask for this lab to be done. And, and you're not telling them.
To go do that thing. You're saying, this is my hunch and this is my experience. And then you're inviting them to do that thing. Yeah. And
they don't have to do the thing if they don't want to. Yeah. But I also think you're so right. Of, of people saying, oh, you know, it's, it's out of fear. And I, I think some doctors do things out of fear of lawsuits too.
So mm-hmm I get that. But. This is out of my scope. This is out of my scope. This, I see people say that about emotional support animal letters. I see that about filling out, uh, accommodation work forms, disability, uh, assessments, like you name it. Things that could be really, really helpful to their clients are like, this is outside of my scope.
I just sit in a room and I just talk. And I, I think back to the, the feminism and systems and oppression, and that is, that is contributing to all of the problems. And I would rather take a chance of overstepping than under step and leave people without help.
Yeah. Yeah. It was my own therapist, uh, in grad school who encouraged me to get a diagnosis and she actually, uh, had EDS too.
And, um, She thought that maybe that's what I was experiencing, but I don't think so. I think it was, I, I have, I had, um, unchecked Lyme disease had gone undiagnosed for many years. And, um, so it caused a lot of joint issues and, and some neurological stuff as well with it's gone so long untreated, but, um, and treated, but, um, you know, and I wanted to, to bring up the point about privilege is like, you know, privilege comes.
There's so many different types of privileges. And I think right now that word is so loaded. You know, people love it or hate it. And so I wanna, yeah, I wanna just touch on that real quick. Um, because it, we all have a privilege in one way or another, whether that's money or the color of your skin or your health status or your marriage status or your, um, sexual orientation status, like all of these different things can aid.
Like you're how privileged you are. And so, um, I feel incredibly privileged in that. Uh, I have the education to advocate for myself and to, um, even to be able to see a functional medicine doctor, like I work and I can, I can choose where my money goes in that way. Mm-hmm uh, and so. I just think it's important for everyone to be aware of their privileges.
There's it's so important. Yeah. Yeah. It's not about shame. It's about, because the more that you use your privilege and you, you actually accept it. Like I have this and I, I can, I can better my own life with it and I can better the lives of others with it. And that's, I think, I think that's the only way that we're gonna, uh, move forward with some
change.
Absolutely as, as hard as of a journey as it was for me, I think, well, I was white so well, I am white. That, that was, um, so, so many things that didn't work against me. I I'm queer, but I am CIS and I'm white. Like if, if I were a black trans woman going through these same experiences, I, I don't know if I'd be here today and that.
That wouldn't be an individual's fault that would be in the system working against them. It's been amazing. The difference. Um, certainly when I went from uninsured college student to insured, you know, I was working in marketing before I was a therapist that, that made a difference. But once I had the master's degree and specifically the master's in social work, that's made a huge difference in how my medical appointments go.
It is wild.
Would you say that that's helped drastically with the level of gas lighting or the level of maltreatment
drastically? Yes. And it's still there. I think that if I were actually a doctor that would give me the, the most privilege. And even then I've read stories about, I have actually even been contacted by for therapy, uh, doctors being gaslighted by other doctors when they have rare, unusual stuff.
Mm.
Yeah, I bet it's, um, gotta be really hard to be on that side of things. Um, where you were the one thinking. You know, I, I have the answers for health issues and then your own health issue arises. And, and there's no answers for you and how quickly people so desperately need an answer that they will Gaslight you into believing that you are wrong, because I don't know what's wrong with you.
Yeah. Because no one likes to feel powerless. But in so many cases, we are, it's part of. Being a, a human being, being any kind of animal on this planet. We're, we're powerless a lot. And that sounds depressing, but it's, it's also a good thing to remember. Yeah.
What do you think, what, what's something that you dream about?
Like changing in the system as far as gas lighting goes or, um, medical maltreat. Or even medical abuse. Um, yeah. What, what's something that kind of comes to mind around what, what can actually change?
Yeah. Um, so many things, but two big ones. We would need to change how medical school and training is done.
I was talking to somebody about this recently, just the, the grind that students have to go through just to even become a doctor. That, that process probably by design weeds out. A lot of people who would be great doctors, disabled doctors, chronically ill doctors who would have the empathy, who would ask the right questions, but they can't make it through medical school, internship and residency, which admittedly, I don't know everything about, but I, I know they are.
What on. In the hospital working like 36, 48 hours at a time where they get to sleep when there's not a patient like that is abusive. Yeah. And, and then the content of what they're taught. I've been seeing things online the past year or so of like, oh, we're finally getting it into medical schools that.
Um, you know, things are different for black people and we need illustrations of black people and, you know, dermatology is different and it's just wild that these changes are happening in 2022. So overhauling or burning down and starting over. However you wanna put it, that system. And then same with our.
The way health insurance and health coverage is done in this country. If no one had to worry about that, if just, and, and I know there are places where this has happened, not an expert in it, but if your doctor says you need something and then you get it and there's no middle man, and there's no waiting.
And like you're Allegra story that would change so much. There'd be more works to be done after that. Of course. But that's where I'd start.
I really, really liked the point, um, that you made about how grueling medical school is and how that weeds out. People who can't keep up that stamina. Not only does it weed out, the people who have the lived experience.
It also puts the people who make it through like, well, I made it through this grueling thing, and again, they don't have the lived experience of having a disability or let's say they do. They're still gonna have probably that internalized, um, stigma because they made it through why can't you.
Absolutely.
I I'm seeing that as like people are talking about, should we cancel student loans? You know, um, the comment sections, you should never read the comments that I do sometimes, uh, every time there's a story about that. Someone's saying, well, I paid it off mine. So why can't they it's like mm-hmm well, what if you hadn't had to wouldn't that have been nice.
right.
Yeah. We just love suffering in this country. yeah. If you're not, if you're not suffering through it, like it's not, it's not a, um, you can't stand on your moral high ground about it.
It's funny, but it's so true. I mean, we were founded by the Puritans mm-hmm and that, that mm-hmm that stuff has not gone away.
it's it? Hasn't. Ugh.
Yeah.
Oh,
yeah. There's um, I do really like what you said about training, um, because yeah, I hadn't thought about that part either that it just, yeah. The people with the lived experience are the ones who can't, um, make it through and you're right. They would make great doctors. Um, you don't have to be ICU stamina ready, uh, in order for you to, to be a great doctor.
So. Yeahs. So
interesting. Same as therapists. Like we don't all have to work in crisis or all have to work in community mental health to be a great therapist. In fact, I, I think those systems should be overhauled too, but that's a conversation for another day. yeah, absolutely. My own doctor has most of the same conditions I have and probably some others too.
And. I've only had her for a year and a half or something. And it's, it's just been wonderful. I'm I'm sure I've had other doctors over the years. Who've had some kind of illness, but she's the only one where I know it's been the same as mine and we've talked about it and it just, I can't even tell you what a difference it makes.
Yeah.
I mean, we, we heal in relationships, right? We. and I think there's something very biological about it. It's not just an emotional, like an emotional thing. Although if that were the case, that'd be fine. But our mirror and neurons literally pick up on other people, other people's ability to move through situations, but the mirror neurons are only gonna pick up and, and resonate with that.
If there's enough similarities between you and me. Right. So if you're an athlete jumping a 10, 10 yards, like you, my, my brain is not gonna pick up on that as something that I can, I can relate to and then work toward, but somebody struggling to do the dishes and, um, finding little ways to help navigate that.
Whether making things more efficient or using assistive devices. Now my brain can pick up on that and be like, okay, wait, that resonates. Here's how I can, I can implement something like this in my life.
Yeah. And I loved what you said about assisted assistive devices too. I, I don't know how much time we have left and this is also a whole podcast episode, but just being more open to stuff like that, people getting, you know, mobility aids or.
Special can openers or, or you name it around the house. Like we don't have to get, well necessarily. We just need support. Uh, have you ever heard of this book as sitting pretty. No, I haven't heard of that one. Uh, sitting pretty the view from my ordinary resilient, disabled body by Rebecca Tosic. I highly recommend it talks about tons of things, but, uh, among them the difference between, uh, it's not just her talking about this, but, um, the difference between the medical model of disability and the social model of disability, which is, oh, kinda what I was just talking about.
Medical says. You individual person with an illness are the problem to be solved. The social model says the disability part comes from inaccessibility, society, apartments, uh, office buildings, whatever are, are not accessible. But if we had ramps, if we had those bottle openers, if we had walkers, if we.
Thing after thing after thing then, uh, most people would be okay. It's, it's not their lack of ability to do the thing. That's the problem, but that there's not any support offered.
That's right. And I would imagine that just going to a doctor, even if there isn't abuse happening, but going to a doctor and being.
Um, narrowed in on as you being the person who needs to solve this problem rather than how can we help you find resources to better manage what you're going through. Uh, that in and of itself is a form of, of unintentional gas lighting.
Yeah. When, when doctors are the ones, I don't think it's a good system, but it is the system right now, their signature.
Is the difference between whether you get a disabled parking permit, whether you get insurance to pay for a wheelchair, whether you get, uh, any number of things. And, and that's a huge power and balance right there. That's where the, the feminism and the system stuff comes in again. And, uh, many times they will deny it because they say, I'm not gonna, like, like my doctor said to me, I'm not gonna help you get out of work.
there as, without even thinking about it individually, they're still in that puritanical mindset that so many of us are of, you know, you gotta work hard and suffer and I'm gonna fix you rather than give you this thing that would make your life so much easier. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. There is the, um, have you ever had any experience with the vocational rehabilitation services?
Yeah.
It's where I did my internship. Um, okay. Here in Georgia and federally funded, lots and lots and lots of dollars. Yeah. Uh, and there's so much red tape that, uh, I can't speak for the whole, like, I can only speak for one place where I worked. It's it's um, it's federal, but it also is run each, each place is run by each state.
And so, yeah,
so here in Washington, it's the division of vocational rehabilitation DV, but I think gotcha. Pretty much the same thing.
Yep, exactly. So, um, they have an ability to help tremendously. Um, but there's a lot of red tape that blocks a lot of people from getting what they need. Yeah. And so
it's just, it's a sad
place to kind of leave off on cause.
There is a system. There is a system that could be so helpful and so great. Um, but there needs to be some serious shifts from the inside and that's hard.
It is hard. And that's why, I guess, in a nutshell, I work with people who have chronic illnesses, but I don't work on chronic illnesses. I'm not here to fix people because they don't need fixing.
I'm here to help them remember that. And, and that on its own does make a difference.
I love that. That's a great place to leave off on fix for summarizing that so beautifully for me, Christy .
Oh, of course. awesome.
Sure. Okay. Yeah. If you can just tell us a little bit about your consultations for therapists, what can people expect, um, when they, when they seek out to work with you?
Absolutely. So this is not supervision, so it can be anyone anywhere. Um, I, I don't promise to know the rules of your state or country, but if we can agree on a time that's, you know, not early in the morning for me, anyone is welcome.
And these would be for therapists who are working with clients with chronic illnesses, who feel like they're hitting a wall and don't know what to do. Um, it doesn't matter if I have experience with a particular illness or not. I probably do, but even if I don't that shouldn't stop us, we can do research and a, a lot of things overlap.
Um, maybe you heard your client talking about some of the things that we talked about today and you don't know what they mean, uh, or maybe your client says they're outta spoons. You're like, uh, why are we talking about cutlery, stuff like that. I, I am happy to provide education and, uh, specific case consultations.
Just don't put any specific information in your initial contact.
Awesome. And then. You offer supervision for, um, provisionally, licensed clinicians in Washington state, right?
Washington state. Yes. Um, right now I'm looking for primarily, uh, social work associates, but I can also do in Washington state associate, uh, L M HCS and.
Whatever the acronym is for Maritan family therapists.
Great. Well, that sounds awesome. Um, I am looking forward to getting this episode aired and if anybody. Wants to find you, what is your website?
Yes, it is dazzling spoons, counseling.com.
Perfect. Very fitting. Well, thanks Christie. I appreciate this so much. Yes. Thanks for having me.
Episode Summary and Notes
Meet Christie Reicher: a therapist specializing in working with the chronic illness population, courageously shares her personal experiences and insights into the maltreatment that occurs within the medical system. She also passionately shares her expertise with fellow therapists on how to support this unique population. Christie opens up about her own experiences and sheds light on the maltreatment that can occur within the medical system.
Christie's path to specializing in chronic illness therapy:
Christie's career as a therapist began in 2016, representing a significant change in her professional trajectory. Her initial focus was on working with survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. Given her background in women's studies and feminism, this seemed like a natural fit for her. However, her personal experience with chronic illness was the catalyst for her journey into this specialized area of therapy.
Christie's approach to therapy has always been rooted in a feminist lens, emphasizing equality and justice for all individuals. Still, it wasn't until she read the book "Doing Harm: The Truth About How Bad Medicine and Lazy Science Lead Women to Be Dismissed, Misdiagnosed, and Sick" by Maya Dusenbery in 2019 that she fully connected the dots between her feminist beliefs and the chronic illness population. The book highlighted the systemic issues that disproportionately affect women in the medical field, from dismissal and misdiagnosis to medical neglect. This revelation served as a crucial turning point in Christie's career, validating her experiences and observations.
Navigating the World of Misdiagnosis:
Christie's journey with chronic illness began in her late teens, as she started experiencing symptoms related to hypermobility and chronic pain. However, her initial encounters with healthcare professionals were marked by dismissiveness and a lack of understanding. Her early symptoms were often attributed to growing pains or dismissed entirely.
The Fibromyalgia Misdiagnosis:
At the age of 19 or 20, Christie sought help from a doctor due to the increasing severity of her symptoms. The doctor diagnosed her with fibromyalgia, a condition characterized by widespread pain and fatigue. However, this diagnosis provided little clarity and was followed by a series of unhelpful and unsupported explanations.
Limited Resources and Insurance Challenges:
A significant factor in Christie's journey was the lack of health insurance. At the time, there were limited resources for individuals without insurance, and she felt trapped in her situation. The medical system's lack of empathy and willingness to address her condition compounded her struggles.
The EDS Revelation:
It wasn't until much later in life, around the age of 37 or 38, that Christie discovered she had Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS), a genetic connective tissue disorder. Learning about EDS was a turning point, as it provided her with an accurate diagnosis that finally made sense of her symptoms. She realized that many of the recommendations given to her earlier, such as intense exercise, were not suitable for her condition.
The Importance of Informed Healthcare:
Christie's journey highlights the critical need for healthcare providers to be well-informed about various medical conditions, especially those that may not always present with obvious symptoms. Misdiagnoses and misinformation can lead to significant physical and emotional harm to patients.
The importance of efficiency and assistive devices in managing chronic illnesses:
Christie concludes by emphasizing her role as a therapist working with people with chronic illnesses, not to fix them, but to remind them of their inherent strength. She also offers consultations for therapists working with clients with chronic illnesses and supervision for provisionally licensed clinicians in Washington state.
The Role of Empathy and Collaboration:
Christie believes that patients shouldn't shoulder the responsibility of navigating the complex healthcare landscape alone, especially when they are chronically ill or disabled. Instead, there should be a collective effort to change the system and address the systemic issues that lead to medical abuse and neglect. Christie highlights the importance of healthcare providers who share their patients' experiences, offering a unique level of understanding and support. She believes that healing occurs through relationships, and fostering empathetic connections can lead to more effective and compassionate healthcare practices.
Conclusion:
The traumatic impact of medical abuse and neglect is a critical issue that deserves our attention and discussion. Through the lens of feminism, social justice, and personal experience, Christie Reicher sheds light on the challenges faced by individuals with chronic illnesses, particularly women. While there may not be easy solutions, awareness and advocacy are essential steps toward a more equitable healthcare system where every patient receives the care and respect they deserve.